430 International String Baler Manuals
International Harvester 430 Baler String Manual Ebook International Harvester 430 Baler String Manual currently available at border1.co.uk for review only, if you need complete ebook International.
Let's start at the beginning and as always look for the easy things to fix first. Have you got a dodgy ball of twine? I assume you are using poly and is it a bit thin? Try swapping it with a different ball if you've got one. If you haven't then swap the balls over and see if the other knotter plays up. If that isn't the problem then, as with all knotters, it can be several things. You say that you can see the twine is slipping off the breast plate.
Not sure what you mean by this, the breast plate is the top of the chamber with the slots in for the needles. Do you mean that the knotter twine is slipping out of the retainers before or at the same time as the needle brings the needle twine up to the retainer?
The retainer is the circular thing with discs that have various slots & notches in them. I don't mean to be patronising but I don't know how knowledeable you are with knotters. The most obvious reason for this is that the retainer is not holding the twine as tight as it should be. It can be that some shims need to be removed from the retainer discs, it could be that the external spring needs adjustment. It could be that the retainer discs are damaged or worn but that is very rare.
The other thing that can mess things up is the twine not being laid across the retainer properly. This happens if the needle is out of adjustment. Basically, when the needle comes up through the chamber it should just 'glance off' the guaging surface of the knotter frame. Trip the knotter and turn the baler over with the flywheel (you may have to take some straw out of the front of the chamber to be able to do this) and see where the needle for the errant knotter goes. When it comes up through the breast plate slot it should then touch the knotter frame and 'glance off' it. Then when the needle goes over the retainer there is a definite measurement between the needle and one of the discs. I can't remember what it is but I could find it out for you.
As I have written, I am assuming that the problem is that the knotter twine is being pulled out of the retainer as the needle is coming up. Remember that the twine has tension on it and with the needle coming up it is trying to pull the knotter twine out. There can be lots of other reason for your problem if I have read it correctly but you can learn a lot by taking some of the straw out of the chamber and tripping the knotter (I assume that you know how to do this) and then turning the flywheel to complete the tying cycle. Let's start at the beginning and as always look for the easy things to fix first.
Have you got a dodgy ball of twine? I assume you are using poly and is it a bit thin? Try swapping it with a different ball if you've got one.
If you haven't then swap the balls over and see if the other knotter plays up. If that isn't the problem then, as with all knotters, it can be several things. You say that you can see the twine is slipping off the breast plate. Not sure what you mean by this, the breast plate is the top of the chamber with the slots in for the needles. Do you mean that the knotter twine is slipping out of the retainers before or at the same time as the needle brings the needle twine up to the retainer?
The retainer is the circular thing with discs that have various slots & notches in them. I don't mean to be patronising but I don't know how knowledeable you are with knotters. The most obvious reason for this is that the retainer is not holding the twine as tight as it should be. It can be that some shims need to be removed from the retainer discs, it could be that the external spring needs adjustment.
It could be that the retainer discs are damaged or worn but that is very rare. The other thing that can mess things up is the twine not being laid across the retainer properly. This happens if the needle is out of adjustment. Basically, when the needle comes up through the chamber it should just 'glance off' the guaging surface of the knotter frame. Trip the knotter and turn the baler over with the flywheel (you may have to take some straw out of the front of the chamber to be able to do this) and see where the needle for the errant knotter goes. When it comes up through the breast plate slot it should then touch the knotter frame and 'glance off' it. Then when the needle goes over the retainer there is a definite measurement between the needle and one of the discs.
I can't remember what it is but I could find it out for you. As I have written, I am assuming that the problem is that the knotter twine is being pulled out of the retainer as the needle is coming up. Remember that the twine has tension on it and with the needle coming up it is trying to pull the knotter twine out.
There can be lots of other reason for your problem if I have read it correctly but you can learn a lot by taking some of the straw out of the chamber and tripping the knotter (I assume that you know how to do this) and then turning the flywheel to complete the tying cycle. Thanks Zaza, Sorry I should have said that the twine is slipping off the breast plate finger (do these wear??) up until yesterday it would bale 500 - 600 bales before it would miss a knot. I have got the International operators manual for the baler and have had the baler for about 5 years so I have a fair understanding how the knotter works. Just not sure if the Breast plate fingers are worn or if the actual knotter assembly is out of alignment. Because the twine is slipping of the breast plate finger the knotter hook isn't picking it up if that makes sense Cheers Steve. Thanks Zaza, Sorry I should have said that the twine is slipping off the breast plate finger (do these wear??) up until yesterday it would bale 500 - 600 bales before it would miss a knot. I have got the International operators manual for the baler and have had the baler for about 5 years so I have a fair understanding how the knotter works.
Just not sure if the Breast plate fingers are worn or if the actual knotter assembly is out of alignment. Because the twine is slipping of the breast plate finger the knotter hook isn't picking it up if that makes sense Cheers SteveHi Steve, now we are getting somewhere.
I have never had to replace any breast plate fingers, and in fact they shouldn't wear really because the twine is only held against them, not pulled over them if that makes sense. If I remember correctly the fingers are held to the breast plate by rivets. Has one of these partially sheared meaning that the finger is not quite pointing across the slot like it should be? Or have you lost/bent/damaged the breast finger spring? Have a look on here at page 50 (it is actually marked page 48 when you get to it) In the upper section of that page, part 2 you will see what I think is the problem that you are experiencing and it goes on to mention problems with the finger and the spring. I have had to replace the springs before now. If you need either a finger or the spring then they can be bought here: I have no connection with that company - never even spoken to them.
If you have to replace either the finger or the spring don't think that you have to rivet them back on to the breast plate. You need some small mushroom headed or countersunk bolts the same diameter as the original rivets.
And push them up from underneath the breast plate with the nuts on top. I would use either nyloc nuts or better still two nuts, one acting as a lock nut Good luck and come back and tell us how you get on. Is this it.?? Yes, that is the spring that fits just in front of the breast plate finger but on the other side of the needle slot if I remember correctly. Not sure why it's painted red. It is a piece of spring steel and they never were painted.
With regard to opening that manual you have to Adobe Acrobat to open it because it is a.PDF file. It does take a long time to open, it is 64 pages or something like that. I have just clicked on the link that I have supplied and it started to open for me O.K. That picture I got from the website you suggested, Im at work at the moment going to go and look at the baler in abit. Will swing the knotters up and see if those springs are there. I think the manual is the same one as I have got. Chances of my local Case IH dealer having those in stock are pretty slim and weathers abit catchy for my liking.If you are missing the springs and can't get hold of any then almost certainly I will have some.
I never replied about the finger that is bent up a bit. I suppose it depends on how bad it is. Never seen that. Where are you? PM me if you like with that info. Would be a shame if we were close and I didn't know it. Would come and have a look for you.
Agreed about the weather. Thanks Dave, I have rung my Case dealer and they are getting them in for tomorrow morning for me. Thought would be best to order them even if they are there. Im in west cornwall, would be a miracle if you was close to me. Will take some more pictures in abit when I get out to where the baler is.Hi Steve.
I hope in a way now that I have suggested that missing springs might be the problem that in fact it is. It's not a difficult fix (did you order some small bolts as well?) About 200 miles from you so would be pushing it a bit. Swinging the knotters up and posting some more piccies would be good.
Yes, that is the spring that fits just in front of the breast plate finger but on the other side of the needle slot if I remember correctly. Not sure why it's painted red. It is a piece of spring steel and they never were painted.
With regard to opening that manual you have to Adobe Acrobat to open it because it is a.PDF file. It does take a long time to open, it is 64 pages or something like that. I have just clicked on the link that I have supplied and it started to open for me O.K.I agree with zaza re the pdf; opened for me ok. Also agree about the flat plate spring. I have a vague memory of a similar problem when the item broke on my B47. The service man made one from a steel rule & fixed the problem, but I cant remember the role the spring plays. I agree with zaza re the pdf; opened for me ok.
Also agree about the flat plate spring. I have a vague memory of a similar problem when the item broke on my B47. The service man made one from a steel rule & fixed the problem, but I cant remember the role the spring plays. JVYou have to go back a stage to understand what the srping does John. The breast plate beak holds the retainer twine away from the retainer so that the billhook can get hold or it during the tying cycle. It keeps it clear of all that is going on when the retainer revolves. But the beak has to be of such a design that when the billhook swings round and grabs hold of both the retainer twine and the needle twine to make the knot that the two twines can then slide off the beak with ease.
When the ram is compressing material into the chamber then fair enough, the retainer twine is tight against the beak. But when the ram recedes then the material 'relaxes' a bit and the twine isn't as tight against the beak that it was on the compression stroke of the ram and it can, under the right circumstances, slip off the beak.
That's where the breast plate spring comes into play. It is designed in such a way as to just stop the slack twine from coming off the beak but when the billhok has tied the knot then the following strokes of the ram, by pushing the material down the chamber, actually pushes the two strands of twine off the beak. That's why the spring is shaped like it is, so that just because the twine is a bit slacker when the ram is receding it can't come off the beak but when more material is being pushed through the baler then they are both pushed off the beak and eventually of course the knot is pulled off the billhook and the bale makes it's way down the chamber. I hope in a way now that I have suggested that missing springs might be the problem that in fact it is.
It's not a difficult fix (did you order some small bolts as well?) About 200 miles from you so would be pushing it a bit. Swinging the knotters up and posting some more piccies would be good. David.Yes 200 miles would be abit of a drive. Im thinking it can only be the fact that these springs missing are whats causing the problem. Changed the string lastnight to what I normally use and worked abit better. Managed to get 10ac baled up.
Just had a phone call to say parts are in. Hi Steve, thanks for piccy. I'm surprised that you weren't getting problems on both knotters. Maybe the slightly bent finger was also contributing. Please let us know how you get on. David.I was getting the same problem on the other knotter aswell, but I put this down to blunt plunger knives but perhaps the missing spring wasn't helping either.
Will let you know later if it works. Do the bits of spring steel fit over the retainer or under??
How many bales an hour should this baler do?? Always think im going to slow with it. Thanks for all your help dave. I was getting the same problem on the other knotter aswell, but I put this down to blunt plunger knives but perhaps the missing spring wasn't helping either.
Will let you know later if it works. Do the bits of spring steel fit over the retainer or under??
How many bales an hour should this baler do?? Always think im going to slow with it. Thanks for all your help dave.I can't see how blunt plunger knives would affect tying - but zaza has a good handle on these balers so he might have better advice. As I see it, blunt knives would simply put more stress on the drive train & the baler frame. With the main gearbox on one side as it is, the frame will want to stretch on that side as a result of the resistance caused by dull knives. BTW, I found the best way to sharpen them was to remove from the baler & use a cutting disc in a small angle grinder, side on.
Probably frowned upon by H&S pedants, but it works for me. As for the same problem on the other knotter, as I remember, several different faults would show up the same way. Is that correct zaza?
You have to go back a stage to understand what the srping does John. The breast plate beak holds the retainer twine away from the retainer so that the billhook can get hold or it during the tying cycle. It keeps it clear of all that is going on when the retainer revolves. But the beak has to be of such a design that when the billhook swings round and grabs hold of both the retainer twine and the needle twine to make the knot that the two twines can then slide off the beak with ease. When the ram is compressing material into the chamber then fair enough, the retainer twine is tight against the beak. But when the ram recedes then the material 'relaxes' a bit and the twine isn't as tight against the beak that it was on the compression stroke of the ram and it can, under the right circumstances, slip off the beak.
That's where the breast plate spring comes into play. It is designed in such a way as to just stop the slack twine from coming off the beak but when the billhok has tied the knot then the following strokes of the ram, by pushing the material down the chamber, actually pushes the two strands of twine off the beak. That's why the spring is shaped like it is, so that just because the twine is a bit slacker when the ram is receding it can't come off the beak but when more material is being pushed through the baler then they are both pushed off the beak and eventually of course the knot is pulled off the billhook and the bale makes it's way down the chamber.Thanks zaza, nicely explained. If I remember, I'll watch when the old girl goes to work again in a couple of months. I was getting the same problem on the other knotter aswell, but I put this down to blunt plunger knives but perhaps the missing spring wasn't helping either. Will let you know later if it works.
Do the bits of spring steel fit over the retainer or under?? How many bales an hour should this baler do?? Always think im going to slow with it. Thanks for all your help dave.Bales/hr is a moveable feast. Really good fit meadow hay in a decent swathe, baler on-song, long rows, and you can get up to 500-600/hr with a 440.
That's very rare though. Normally straw doesn't feed quite so well because it hasn't got any life in it. I don't think I've ever done more than about 300-350/hr in wheat straw and that again had to be behind a decent combine with a good sized header and again, good long rows. My best day, ever, was in 1968, using a B47 in an 80 acre field of winter barley before growth regulators were even thought of, behind two 14ft Clayson 140 combines and a Fisher Humphries with a folding header that was on demo. I think the field was about half a mile long (it's got a motorway running through the middle of it now!) I had done the headlands the day before and they had been carted.
International 430 Baler Manual
Although '68 was a wet year it was exceptionally dry early in the season and I was able to start baling at 8am and finished at nearly 11pm. No dew to speak of and it was for a hay and straw merchant and went straight to Wales so he wasn't bothered if the bales were a bit heavy.
The baler went like a sewing machine all day long, only stopped for more string, ate food on the go, and I baled 6,200 bales that day. I was on 8d (old pence)/bale and there was 240 to the £ so the baler earned me £206.66 or £206 -13/- for those who remember old money. I had bought a new tractor the year before, a DB 990 and that cost me £1.002-19/- I never got anywhere near those sort of figures again.
But to answer your question, if you're not doing 200 bales/hour something is against you. We used to do a lot of hay baling for customers and ran 2 balers and the people who rowed up were the bain of my life. When you've got 5 places to go to in a day and the weather is a bit dodgy the last thing you need is some kid being let loose on a b.dy Acrobat. Makes me mad even now just thinking about that. I can't see how blunt plunger knives would affect tying - but zaza has a good handle on these balers so he might have better advice. As I see it, blunt knives would simply put more stress on the drive train & the baler frame. With the main gearbox on one side as it is, the frame will want to stretch on that side as a result of the resistance caused by dull knives.
BTW, I found the best way to sharpen them was to remove from the baler & use a cutting disc in a small angle grinder, side on. Probably frowned upon by H&S pedants, but it works for me. As for the same problem on the other knotter, as I remember, several different faults would show up the same way. Is that correct zaza? The only thing that springs to mind with regard to knives that are blunt and/or not adjusted properly is that when they are sharp and adjusted (you push the ram across towards the pickup reel thereby pushing the ram knife closer to the stationary knife) the crop is cut cleanly and the ram pushes it well down the chamber.
If they aren't sharp and adjusted properly then the whole of the crop isn't cut properly and there is crop 'floating about' in the chamber and if the needles can get hold of this when they are coming up through the ram they can push it up towards the retainers. And while I think about it, there is a wooden block on the top of the ram that is wedge shaped. If some/all of that block goes missing the baler will play up with the same consequences. The first time that happened I couldn't figure out what was wrong but a really decent IH man told me about it.
I bought a new block for tuppence halfpenny and that baler went like a train again. And yes, all sorts of things can show up the same fault.
Usually connected with needle adjustment or the retainers but maybe those missing springs are the problem this time. Let's hope so. I was getting the same problem on the other knotter aswell, but I put this down to blunt plunger knives but perhaps the missing spring wasn't helping either. Will let you know later if it works.
Do the bits of spring steel fit over the retainer or under?? How many bales an hour should this baler do??
Always think im going to slow with it. Thanks for all your help dave.Sorry Steve, didn't answer all your question. The spring sits on top of the breast plate in the two holes that you can see. The springs have a bent piece on the end opposite where the holes are. The bent bit points down towards the chamber. (I am almost certain of that!
But check if you can please ) It fits under the finger NOT the retainer.